Shaun Kirk, PT has spent decades coaching PT owners on how to improve their practices and their lives. Now, he shares his wisdom on the PT Practice Success Podcast, and Nathan Shields was lucky enough to be his first guest! In this episode, they discuss what they’ve learned about PT owner mentalities as coaches of private practice PT owners over the years. Shaun and Nathan have years of experience dealing with clients in the PT industry. Tune in to this conversation and gain more insights from these experts today!
Listen to the podcast here
Insights Into PT Owner Mentalities After Coaching Them For Years With Shaun Kirk Of PT Practice Success Podcast
In this episode, I get to share the opportunity I had to be the first guest on my friend Shaun Kirk’s new show, PT Practice Success. Check it out. He has shared a number of episodes in which he shares his wisdom and knowledge regarding PT practice ownership. We discuss what we’ve learned over the years through our PT ownership experiences, or more specifically, what we’ve learned as coaches of private practice PT owners over the years and Shaun Kirk’s experience over the decades that he’s been coaching PT practice owners. There were a lot of cool insights that we’ve made specific to PT ownership.
For those who haven’t received any coaching or consulting in private practice, maybe this can be a little bit of support for you to make that next step. For those who have received some coaching or consulting, you can look back with us on what you’ve learned over the years of getting some coaching and the progress that you’ve made during your ownership experience. We’ll get into it. I’m excited to say I’m his first guest, but I thought you would appreciate what we talk about on our show as well.
I’d like to welcome Nathan Shields. He is the proud Owner of the Physical Therapy Owner’s Club. He is a private practice owner extraordinaire. He built a successful private practice in Phoenix, Arizona, sold that for a very pretty penny, and then went out on his own. He moved his family to Alaska, and amongst other things, took his show, The PTO Club, to a whole new level. I’m so happy to have an opportunity to have Nathan on our show.
Welcome, Nathan Shields.
Thanks for having me on, Shaun. I appreciate it. It’s cool to be on your show knowing that you were one of my first interviewees. A couple of years ago was one of my first episodes.
It took me a little while to grow into doing something like this. It is somewhat new for me. All my episodes have been pretty much Shaun rambling. You’re my first episode with an actual other person.
This is the first rodeo for you.
This is my first interview on the show.
I went in the opposite direction. I didn’t think I knew all that much, so I’d rather interview people who had all the information like you, and highlight you guys. I didn’t think there was much value I could add, so I go the other way and interview a bunch of other people.
You know that that’s not true but I get what you’re saying. Sometimes, it’s easier to work off of someone than being all alone between me and this little microphone. You’re usually getting other people’s stories. Tell me your story. How long were you out of school before you went into private practice?
I always went into physical therapy knowing that I wanted to own a clinic. When I met physical therapists who I aspired to be like back in the day when I was in college, they were people who had relatively not rich lives but comfortable lives that could supply for their families and provide for their families. I then volunteered at some of these physical therapy facilities and watched what was happening. I would talk to the patients and the providers and would come home with an adrenaline rush. It was tingly. Everything was rosy and exciting. The world was great. That told me that this is my thing. This is what I want to do.
I pursued physical therapy knowing eventually I would get into physical therapy ownership at some time. After I graduated, I did my rounds of physical therapy jobs. I was positioned in physical therapy practices at a hospital-owned outpatient facility. I did some working sniffs and that kind of stuff here and there. Eventually, I got the courage to open up my own practice.
It went the opposite way. I was looking for a space. After work, I would go drive to areas where maybe I want to post practice and I would look for places for rent. I’d then tell my wife about it, like, “This place might work.” Eventually, she’d call one place and ask if the rates and the terms were great. She said, “When are you going to put in your notice?” I was like, “Is this really happening?” I had to put in my notice and believed that I was going to own a PT clinic that was dependent upon me. That was a long time. That was in 2002 that I did that.
I started from scratch. My kid asked me, or maybe someone else asked me, “How many employees did you have when you first started your clinic?” None. It was me. I was doing it all. You know that. I did everything from mopping the toilets to marketing physical therapy. I did it all. Eventually, within a few months, I had my first employee. I was in the Metro Phoenix area. I had one clinic then I started a second clinic. The manager for that second clinic ended up wanting to buy that clinic over the course of a few years, and that became my partner, Will Humphreys. He would be a great guest to have on your show as well.
I’ll get him.
He and I then also had a third clinic. We decided to merge all these clinics together and got the fourth clinic. We ran that for a number of years. We sold in 2018. It was good. I would say Will and I are excited that we didn’t own anything through the pandemic. In that case, it was good timing to get out. Things are back. We probably would’ve made more if we muddled through that, but there are no complaints whatsoever. Since that time, I have been doing the show for the past couple of years. I do some coaching like you of PT owners. I also find myself doing other things, whether it is real estate or other things to keep me busy.
If you were to look back on your whole private practice career and the trials, tribulations, and everything that goes with it and you were to give one piece of advice or the one thing that you thought was a catalyst that got you and Will into leadership from that particular perspective versus cleaning the toilets and stuff like that, what is it?
It had to be a mindset shift and an understanding that I need to know more than I do. Don’t get me wrong. Over the course of those first ten-plus years, I built a good business that was financially stable. I was making decent money. I had a large family that I could support. We were living the American Dream. That is outside of the fact that I was waking up at 4:00 AM to get caught up on my notes so I could be at my office at 6:30 AM or 7:00 AM to start treating patients. I would then get home at 7:00 PM. I would do that five days a week.
I would have calls every day while I’m on vacation from the office. I had limited freedom. Honestly, I would go three days without seeing my newborn baby awake because I was up while they were asleep and by the time I got home, they were asleep. All I would do is see them in the crib. I remember some of the looks that my employees gave me when I said, “I’m going to get some consulting coaching so I can improve this business and take it to another level.” They looked at me like, “What’s wrong with your business? You’re making good money and things seem to be going well here.” They didn’t understand what was happening in my life where the freedom factor was little to none.
Financially, it might be okay, but the quality wasn’t where it had to be because it was so consuming.
I finally had to recognize that the limiting factor was a number of things. They didn’t come in with these exact phrases, but I was recognizing that I was the limiting factor. I was recognizing that I needed to know more than I knew, I needed to gain some more knowledge, and it would require an investment in time and money in order to do that.
It wasn’t going to come from a book and the natural osmosis of those theories would be automatically implemented in my practice. I needed some guidance from someone who’d been there, done that before. It is all of those things to say I needed consulting. I needed a coach. I needed an expert to show me what to do next. Honestly, it was after Will and I finally committed to that that we saw dramatic, significant changes in our business.
Sometimes, when you’re struggling in a business, you’re willing to sacrifice your freedom and time to make some money because you got to. It’s like you tell your wife, “Buckle in for a long ride. Maybe someday, I’ll have dinner with you on a Saturday.” Eventually, when the practice gets to a certain point, even though it can be financially successful, it can get to a point where you become the hamster in the wheel for so long it’s normal to be the hamster in the wheel. At that point, it’s sometimes where you have to sacrifice some money to get some freedom and time.
That would be, in that case, with you and Will on getting some help and coaching or some advice from someone who’s not right in it. You have transitioned into also coaching clients and helping them go to a higher level and grow their business. Since you’re on the other side of that, what do you see in some of the early clients when you initially meet with them that you would sometimes see in yourself?
Maybe it’s a natural thing. I see it from myself because I’m a frugal person by nature. I see it pervasive throughout the physical therapy industry as the scarcity mindset. Some people might not like the scarcity versus abundance mindset because it’s been overplayed, but I see it often with my clients. There is little room for accepting that there are greater possibilities. If they were to invest a little bit more time or money in more important things, they don’t see those as investments. They see those investments as lost expenses. They’re like, “That’s $5,000 I’m never going to see again,” instead of thinking, “This is an investment in my business. If I put $5,000 here, it could return $20,000, $50,000, or $100,000 later on,” years down the road.
Do you mean investing in coaching or investing in a particular service or a way of doing things?
It’s with anything. It may be investing in hiring a new PT. Taking on that salary, they see that as a lost expense that would never return. It is a little bit difficult because it’s simply harder to recruit PTs, but when it wasn’t hard to recruit PTs soon after the pandemic hit, it was still hard for them to reach out and find a PT. I was trying to tell them, “You’re going to pay them the $75,000 salary. They’re going to return 3 to 4 times should you keep them productive.” They’re like, “Where does my salary come from?” I’d be like, “Let’s work out the numbers.” You can work out the numbers all day long and get them to a point where it works on paper, but they still couldn’t take that step.
You’re trying to talk someone into getting coaching because you know what’s best for them. Honestly, I’ve had people tell me that I’m asking for their firstborn child with what I’m charging for coaching. I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of coaching over the course of my life on many different coaches and I would never change a thing about it. It’s hard for me to understand it now, but talking to myself back then, I can understand where my mindset would’ve been and where potential clients are that they don’t see it as an investment.
It’s hard to extrapolate. I’m like, “If you spend $10,000 on me right now over the course of the next 6 or 12 months, you are going to get more profitable faster. You’re going to accelerate this growth and be more profitable than you were and you would be 2 to 3 years from now in terms of 5 to 6 figures.” They can’t make that connection. There’s fear and scarcity. They’re like, “My profit margins are 5% right now. How can I possibly spend money on you?” It’s hard to get over that.
There’s a certain neurosis that occurs in running a healthcare business. You get the patients in, get them treated, and do your notes. That goes on. What coaching does is create a better future. Sometimes, what’s happening is the person is so caught up in the hamster in the wheel and they’re like, “How could I possibly have the time to do this type of stuff?” You’re getting them to shift their mindset on how they do a few things so that they can poke their head up and realize that life doesn’t suck. Maybe there’s a chance that they could do better and achieve something greater than what they’ve done thus far.
I’ve got a client I’m working with. He’s got about 300 practices so he works his tail off. It’s like he’s in a trap. He’s making money and he’s doing good but his mindset is you go to work and you grind it out. Who’s going to steer the ship? It’s like the captain of the ship who likes to make meals for his guests in the galley. While the ship runs ashore, someone’s got to steer it. Maybe they don’t know how to steer and they’ve been fortunate not to hit the rock so far. With coaching and with your help, you’re guiding the person on a path that usually gets them to their destination with better fuel economy, so to speak.
I get the mindset. It’s so hard to convey that to someone else because they’ve spent how many decades building their life to become a physical therapist and then you’re telling them, “If you want to achieve your goals, you have to lose that identity altogether.” That throws them for a loop. What am I going to do with my time? It is a question that they don’t ask but they ask in other ways. They’re like, “How can I justify my existence if I’m not treating patients?” These are existential questions that they have about their lives. It takes time for them to make that mindset shift.
Maybe it’s a win for you as it is for me when they finally tell me, “I recognize that I was wasting my time treating patients because the entire time, I was thinking about the business and what I needed to get done.” When they finally get to that point of recognizing that treating patients is less valuable in the overall scenario than working on their business, then I’m like, “Finally. Now, we’re making a breakthrough. There’s a win.”
It’s true. You are doing your patients a disservice if you are treating them when your business needs you. That’s hard to understand sometimes because you can do so much more. You can have so much more impact. You can be more powerful across a greater number of people if you were to focus more of your time on the business than on the one-on-one relationships of patient care. I understand where they’re starting from. I wish I could get more of them to the other side faster because they don’t recognize that once you open your door for your clinic, you are no longer a physical therapist first. You’re a business owner who happens to be a physical therapist.You are doing your patients a disservice if you treat them when your business needs you. You can be more powerful across more people if you focus more of your time on the business than on the one-on-one patient care relationships. Click To Tweet
I recommend some of my clients, at times, when we get into this conversation that change the wording as they talk to people. When people say, “What do you do?” Instead of saying physical therapist, I challenge you to say, “I’m a business owner,” and stop. They say, “What kind of business do you own?” You’re like, “I own a physical therapy clinic.” I challenge them to use those words because that’s the mentality they need to get into. It’s, “I’m a business owner first that happens to be in physical therapy.”
There’s a lot whereas as a clinician, you don’t even have time management. You have a schedule that someone keeps for you and you see the next person on the list.
You’re a slave to the schedule. You’re a slave to the front office person who’s dictating your schedule.
You then have the documentation that falls on your own schedule and some people don’t have the discipline for that. They can’t get their notes done. When you start rolling out of patient care and you get your “admin time,” you usually do your notes during your admin time instead of driving business.
You pay bills and handle HR stuff. Whatever is coming at you, it’s not intentional.
I say we’re neurotic. Everything is capturing your attention. Sanity is the ability to be able to put something into the future and have it materialize at some point. That takes planning and execution whereas all we do is a firefight in a clinic, which so many practice owners do. We put out a fire, put our heads down, and treat our patients. You usually are managing your practice on the way to the bathroom when you have to pee. That’s not much of a future you’re creating. I agree with you. Getting that person to recognize that the time he spends not treating and using that time effectively will give him the practice of his dreams.
They can’t envision that initially because the question often comes up, “What am I going to do during that time?” That’s where coaching comes in. I’d be like, “What statistics are you measuring? Let’s start there.”
That’s a good place to start.
Some of the stuff can be exciting for people. For me, working on the business started becoming exciting. One of those things is to start developing policies, procedures, or systems. I haven’t met anyone that enjoys doing that and looks forward to doing that. You can give them all these other things to do, but they will avoid trying to write up policy and procedure.
I have a client. Every year, they re-do their policy and procedure manual because the guys aren’t doing it right. I said, “Why don’t you make them read it again and then ask them questions about it?” Sometimes, we write these things and then they sit on a shelf and no one ever follows them. I’m like, “Instead of rewriting your policy and procedure manual, why don’t you have people read it? You can then go around and ask them a question or two from the policy and procedure manual to see if they understand it. If they don’t understand it, ask them to read it again.”
Maybe they change it.
I’d be like, “If they don’t understand or it no longer applies, then change it then.” How do you handle those considerations when you have someone who thinks he’s more valuable treating patients because he’s generating revenue whereas if he’s not, he’s not generating revenue?
It’s hard. Maybe I can’t help them. If that’s what they want to do and they don’t have any greater aspirations, then maybe they’re good where they’re at. I can talk until I’m blue in the face that you treating patients all day is a detriment to your business, your personal life, and the profession. Honestly, I can say that in all three phases, it can be detrimental.
If they don’t truly believe it, then I can’t help them. If they’re wanting more though, that’s where you and I know we can help. If they’re wanting more than that, if they’re like, “I want more freedom,” or, “I’m doing all of this and I’m making a 2% profit margin. I’m negative. What do I do now?” I can help that guy or girl. Interestingly, I look back at this and smile. Will and I had this idea. We were like, “We’re going to get this consultant going. We’re going to step out of our business, work on it so that things become more systematized and profitable, and then we’re going to go back in and treat as much as we want.”
That never happens.
It might happen to some people. A lot of therapists, because they have good hearts, were like me. I laugh at myself. I’m not going to laugh at other people, but I laugh at myself because I did go back into treating a little. The documentation and the regulations, after about three months, were like, “Never again do I want to see another patient.”
I loved treating patients and interacting with them. I got results. I’m a fairly good therapist, but I did not want to touch another patient for the rest of my life. I had gotten to that point over time. More power to them. If that’s what they want to do, let’s do that. It takes a lot of effort to get to that point where you could come back, treat, and be an integral part of the clinic. Hopefully, you’re not an integral part, but you can go back and treat patients if you want to on a cash basis and whatever it is on your own schedule.
They could cover a vacation or something like that.
They could cover a vacation or whatever they do, but most people don’t want to do that when they get to that level.
You start to taste the freedom that you hope the business ownership will give you someday.
You start to see opportunities that weren’t there before. If I’m treating patients, then that’s a distraction to this opportunity. I love when you were talking about time management. We’re not good as time managers because our schedule is usually dictated to us. We have to learn how to manage our time better. That can be a significant hurdle to get over when you’re coming out of patient care and into more administrative work.
When you are having admin time and you don’t put it on a to-do list or something where you’re like, “What am I going to do during that three-hour or half-a-day admin time?” Your staff members will do it for you. They’ll notice that you’ve got an opening in your schedule. When you’re not treating patients and they line up at your door, they’re like, “Do you have a second?” You have to have whatever you’re doing during your admin time as important as treating Bob Smith’s back condition.
I’ve always recognized that if you’re going to have a half day of admin time, it should be after lunch. Treat patients, have a break, and then do it after lunch. I’m more trying to push people to take full days off. You and I know that going from treating mode to admin mode, I don’t know what it is mentally that takes a shift, but it’s draining simply to make that shift. I can go from treatment mode, and then if you sit me at the desk, I have no idea where to start and what to do. You either need that break or have a whole day dedicated to admin work.
The mindset shift can be draining and difficult. It can make you less productive. It’s what you alluded to or at least said about putting your to-do list on the calendar ahead of time so you’re not sitting there thinking, “What do I do next? There are some bills to pay. I’ll write some checks. What do I do next? That’s right. I’ve got to finish that re-eval so it can get billed out. Let’s check the email.” You can put your to-do list on the calendar and block out the times of things that need to get done that can make you most effective.You can be most effective if you can put your to-do list on the calendar and block out the times of things that need to get done. Click To Tweet
I always think of it in terms of a primary target that we used to always do with clients. You probably could remember this. We’d tell people, “You have to start getting a five-hour block on your schedule during the normal work week.” Do you remember those times?
Sometimes, the client is like, “How about an hour a day?” It’s like, “No. An hour a day bleeds right through. It’s at least a five-hour block to start.” Whenever I’d have a consultant that was having trouble with the client not applying, not winning, or something is not working, I’ll say, “Does he have a five-hour block? They go, “I don’t know.” I’m like, “Go find out,” and he doesn’t have a five-hour block.
You don’t concentrate his attention on creating a future because he takes little periods and doesn’t hold it steady or hold it fast. They’re like, “During this time, I’m working on my future plans and programs. I’m building a better mouse trap. All my other times, I could be with the fire hose and putting out the fire, but during this time, I’m creating a future.”
Eventually, it’s all day, then it’s two days, and then it’s all the time. It’s finding the time. Forcing the time may be challenging. When you look at the client and what the client has attention on, it’s not just him or her taking some time to be a better executive. When you take that owner and he faces the rest of his staff, what’s the biggest challenge and trouble that he has with his staff members?
What I feel like I’m teaching, talking about, or training a lot on is how to hold people accountable. It’s to lead a team. No one is naturally born to lead the team. We didn’t get any training like that in physical therapy school. Sometimes, we expect the same from our management teams if we have someone who we’re building up as a clinic director. Let’s say it’s the front office coordinator that’s over the other patient care coordinators and all their stats aren’t any good.
I had this conversation with someone. I’m like, “What are you doing with the coordinators?” “She should be the one helping the rest of the team get the stats up.” Number one, he wasn’t having any meetings with the coordinator. Number two, I don’t think they had any stats that they were assessing and reviewing on a regular basis. He kept saying, “I want you to go watch videos a week on front office training,” and they weren’t doing it right. He’s expecting someone else to hold them accountable when he’s not holding her accountable.
No one’s ever been trained on how to hold people accountable, so we had to go back. I was like, “Number one, you have to set the expectation and then establish an agreement with the person you’re working with. This is the expectation and here’s the agreement. Can we do that?” Have an understanding that in the near future, maybe it is in a week at the same time and the same place, that you’ll be like, “We’re going to talk about what you did towards meeting that expectation and upholding our agreement. If it didn’t get met, then how do you address that?”
It’s still a learning process to deal with people, but it’s easy as a physical therapist. What we trained on for decades is to treat patients. You tell them what to do and hopefully, they do it. If they don’t do it, it’s no skin off your back. You’re going to try to push them to do their home exercise programs more often.
When you have an employee and it’s a different story, you need to consider firing them and how you’re going to hire the next person. If they’re not meeting it, how do you encourage them? How do you train them? Those are all things that you need to learn over time. That’s something that I’m finding needs to be addressed often with owners. Being physical therapists, our personality is that we want to be liked. We have compassionate hearts. We want to be empathetic. We want to lean towards empathy as much as possible without holding the line of accountability. That can be difficult.
I agree. Sometimes, you see the owner wants to change the behaviors of his staff without changing his own behaviors. They’re like, “I want them to be more dedicated or more on top of things,” but then they’re not getting anything done. It does start with the individual mindset, changing his point of view, and recognizing that he can handle things.
Part of it is if you think of children, then you got this thing figured out. You tell your kids to go clean their room and then they say they did. You go in and then you have different definitions of what a clean room is. You then have to reapply the policy to, “This is what a clean room looks like.” The staff goes, “I did it,” then you go and look and it’s a mess. What do you do? You clean the room for them. You don’t do that. You get them to handle that problem. With what you’re saying, I find that it’s not making too many changes too fast when I work with somebody. I didn’t learn that years ago. I’ve learned that more recently.
I could learn more about that to scale my expectations back as a coach. Maybe have them work on 1 or 2 things at a time instead of 3 or 4.
That’s because then, you’re coaching for wins. They’re winning. It’s a little step. After I left private equity and got back into this game, I realized that what I thought the client could do and what the client was willing to do were entirely two different things. I was like, “What was going on? Why didn’t we get this done?” They’d be overwhelmed. I then realize I was becoming the next problem that they were having because I was trying to push on something even though we made agreements early on that they wanted me to push them, but they didn’t.
It’s like you want your wife to tell you if you’re eating something you shouldn’t eat until she tells you. You go, “You don’t have to tell me every time I eat that. Why are you always on my case?” I started noticing that we’re making smaller changes where the client feels somewhat underwhelmed by you, not overwhelmed at first. They do it, and then little by little, you notice the morale goes up in the group versus cracking the whip. The morale goes up in the group and the owner feels like people are admiring him or her as being a leader. You take a bigger bite and the next thing you know, you’re opening another clinic. That’s been a relatively new thing. I’ve been doing this thing for a long time.
We’ve been doing it for so long.
The part that’s igniting a lot of interest that I see is there are so many more stresses in private practice now than there ever were even when you were practicing, let alone when I was practicing. You had to be a mental fur ball to fail in private practice when I was in private practice. You have to be a better business owner and a better leader now more than at any other time. I 100% agree, but taking little steps sometimes makes a big difference.
Some of the successful PT owners out there navigating through the environment are some of the better small business owners in the country compared to other industries. You don’t have to navigate what we have to navigate and be successful in the construction industry. Take a pick. That’s why I like real estate. It’s for dummies. You can make money in those things without having to deal with all the regulations, HR headaches, the ins and outs, or billing collections. You name it. All this stuff, you don’t have to deal with.
For physical therapy owners to be successful in this environment takes a lot of skill and ability. To think that you can do that coming right out of school or even having practice for a few years and think you’re a great therapist is naive. Being a good therapist has nothing to do with being a good business owner, which you could become when you finally hang your shingle.Being a good therapist has nothing to do with being a good business owner. Click To Tweet
My mantra is to get out, reach out, and network. You got to get out of the practice. You’ve got to reach out and find someone to help you, guide you, and give you some expertise. Network with other owners because many times, you’re going to feel alone and that you’re reinventing the wheel. If you connect with some people, they’re willing to share what they’ve done successfully to help you overcome the issues that you have. You have to do those three things to be successful.
I have been in over 300-plus clinics. Sometimes, I’ll go and be overwhelmed by all the bad things. Sometimes, I see some things that change the way I work with people. You and I both know Aaron Williams. I went out to do an office visit with him. He had a quarterly staff meeting and he gave $23 gas cards to every staff member who got a patient to refer a friend or family member. Somehow, he was able to track it to the individual staff members. It’s 23 because his favorite player of all time is Michael Jordan, so they have $23 gas cards.
My wife and I were there for a quarterly conference. We were doing a visit with you and Will. We just had a little window in between. He called everybody up on stage. He probably had 80 staff. 15 of them were still sitting in the seats and everybody else was on the stage. If I was 1 of those 15 people, I’d be very nervous. One lady hands two stacks of cards and she fans them out. He says, “Maria, when was the last time you bought gas?” She says, “I haven’t bought gas in the three years that I’ve been here.” It hit me. I was like, “Oh my God.” I’ve always known it’s a gold mine inside your practice that people don’t tap.
Ever since the time I saw that, that’s been a mission for me. We do such a great job. Our patients love us. They talk about us during dinner. They come back a year later and they pick up the sentence where they left off. It’s like, “Take care and come back if you need us.” We don’t do anything to get a megaphone in their hands. If we’re able to do that 5% better than we’re doing now, it would make a big difference in practice.
It’s fun to learn some of those things that you get from clients. You then get excited about sharing them with other clients. It’s part of what you do. It’s like, “This is successful over here. You need to consider that in your place as well.” It’s fun to share those kinds of things.
That’s especially when clients get a CEO. We’re like, “You guys got a CEO.” When you finally get a CEO to step into the role, who would’ve thought that you would ever get to that point that something like that can happen? The most powerful thing that holds us back in life is a thought anyway. It’s not any other thing. It’s a thought that we feel we can overcome. Nathan, I appreciate you being on this particular show. I know we’re going back and forth. I was one of your firsts. You are my first interview. I love what you’re doing. I love how you’re helping this profession that desperately needs it.
You do make a difference. The places that I run into that I mentioned, they’re like, “He’s the podcast guy.”
It goes right back at you. At this point, I’m not surprised, but I have been surprised over the past couple of years with the people that I interview who you’ve affected over the years with your work. These are people that I would’ve never considered you had any connection to them at all, but they’re successful business owners because of the work that you’ve done.
Thanks. I appreciate that. We’ll do this again sometime.
I’d love to. Anytime.
About Shaun Kirk
CEO Shaun Kirk has guided more than 2,000 PT practices to higher levels of performance and success, many of which have won prestigious awards for rapid growth and profitability. With decades of experience and tangible results as a PT practice owner and a management consultant, he’ll show you how to rapidly achieve your goals.
Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! https://ptoclub.com/