Most Physical Therapy clinics would improve their profits if they dropped their lower insurance payor. In fact, busy clinics would not only be more profitable, but they would also be more profitable with few patients. Steve Edwards of Achieve PT in Las Vegas experienced it—going from ~$60 per visit to over $100 per visit in the course of one year by dropping two of his lowest payors. And he’s looking to drop even more. He joins Nathan Shields in this episode to tell us more about it! Hopefully, this conversation gives you the courage to stand up and expect more from insurance. As a whole, the only way the industry can stem the tide of declining reimbursements is to not accept those contracts en masse. Steve’s story can provide confidence that it can be done with massive positive benefits. So drop your lowest payor now and discover how you, too, can increase your profits and grow your business!
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Drop Your Lowest Payor Now! How Steve Edwards Of Achieve PT Increased His Average Reimbursement $40 Per Visit
On this episode, I’ve got a longtime coaching client and friend, physical therapy owner Steve Edwards out of Las Vegas, Nevada, with Achieve Physical Therapy. Steve, we haven’t talked for a number of years. It’s nice to have you on the show.
Nate, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here to at least share my ideas, thoughts, story or whatever.
The audience doesn’t know you. I’ve known your story since we talked for a couple of years up until this point. Let the audience know a little bit about where you’re coming from and what you’re doing.
We worked together for a couple of years. I’m the owner of Achieve Physical Therapy. I used that term extremely loosely because I was a physical therapist that saw patients and tried to ignore everything else. It’s a lot like the other owners you had. Many years ago, I started Achieve Physical Therapy with a business partner. Over that time, I made a decent living but found myself digging a deeper hole, where you’ve to see the patients and you’re not comfortable being away from the clinic. I find myself being tied down to it more and more.
Did you notice it while you were going through it?
Not in the beginning.
Did you accept that this is what it is? “This is the grind. If I’m an owner, this is what I signed up for.”
“This is what you’re going to do.” I look at the PTs that have been out of school about the same time as us where you were in a busy clinic, whether it was in your internship or as a technician. Maybe it’s right out of school, outpatient and busy clinic. All you ever saw were tons of patients.
That was your job.
When you go out on your own and you’re doing that, now you have all these other duties stacked on top of you. You’re like, “I don’t have time for that. If I ignore it, maybe it’ll go away and I’ll just work on patients. Hopefully, the billing will come in correctly and we’ll get paid.” For the most part, you do. Other times, you don’t and you worry about that. I found myself digging that hole deeper and deeper, and finding that there wasn’t any escape.
What was the emotional toll, psychological toll or burden that looking back, maybe you didn’t recognize at the time but now you can see? What was the toll on you in your life?
There was one experience in particular that I always think back to. It’s probably been a good ten years but I hadn’t taken a day off in eighteen months which is not anything to brag about. I look back at my family and I think, “What was I doing to them?” I took a day off because my wife was getting admitted to the hospital.
I’m not saying that was the turning point because I went back to doing the same thing but I realized that I am tied to this. I’m not comfortable and I don’t know how to get away from it. I found myself putting the business in front of my family, in front of anything else, and in front of vacations. If you did take a vacation, it was just a couple of days. There was burnout. Something you always talk about too is when you’re with a patient or you’re working on a patient, then you find yourself thinking about all of the things that you’re not doing as a business owner. Your full attention isn’t on the patient but I got to see the patient because that’s how I make a living. It was that vicious cycle of seeing patients, worrying about the business, don’t take time off, getting paid, and not sure how to get out of that.
The partnership wasn’t going well at the time from what I remember.
In the beginning, it was fantastic. Every time there was an issue, we doubled down on what we were doing, so we would open another clinic. We ran into issues and we’re like, “We heard this is going well over here,” so we’ll open another clinic. My business partner moved out of state to run another clinic. I stayed here and was running two clinics. When I say running two clinics, I was ignoring two clinics but working in both, so it’s a double feeling.
Eventually, we got to the point where he took that clinic. For the second clinic, I sold that off to the guy who was managing it for the price of the equipment. I said, “If you’ll take this off my hands, I don’t have to worry about it.” It was like that for a very long time until COVID forced me to not see as many patients and to step back. I had a little time. I remember it was April, so it was maybe a month into COVID. I was sitting at home. I pulled my computer out on the dining room table or the kitchen table there. I was typing away.
I pulled up this document. I titled it the Belief Ceiling. I was like, “There are physical therapists out there that are making a living and not doing what I’m doing. There’s another recipe. There’s a way around this.” The first thing I started typing was, “How much do I want to make per patient? How much freedom do I want?” I started typing out these different things, then I typed out what I am making per patient, how many hours I’m working, and what my beliefs are about this. I didn’t know how to change those belief systems. I’ve always seen this. This is what I’d always done. Mathematically, when I type it out on a calculator or start punching in the numbers, it didn’t work in my brain. There was no way around it.
When you’re looking at this gap between what you want and where you are. What are you thinking at the time? Were you like, “That’s impossible?”
There was that thought. I even typed that. I want to type my thoughts out, so I could come back to them. I typed this out, “I don’t know how to do this but I know that so and so down the street is doing this. There’s a way to do it but I do not know how to do this.” I knew that my buddies in other states were doing it as well. Granted, their reimbursement was dramatically different. I understood their pathway a bit better, but other people that were here in the same city that I am, they seem to be making it work. I was like, “The pathway exists. I just don’t know how to do that.” I stew on those thoughts for a while.
A couple of months later, in June, a buddy of mine who’s an attorney here in town sent me a text. He was like, “I don’t know if you’re interested in this or if it interests you, but the PT host of this podcast is an old college roommate of mine. It is maybe worth a listen, check it out if you want to.” It was your podcast. I think it was a week later, I was driving around running some errands. I listened to the first two episodes.
I shared this with you, but the one where you and Will were talking hit home with me. It’s about how he had set all of his files on his passenger seat and the airbag sensor would go off. That was my life going back and forth between those two clinics. It spoke to me. Hearing you guys talk, it’s like, “This is my path. This is how I change things. This is what we do.” Anyway, I reached out to you and that’s when we started working together right there during COVID.
I remember you coming on and sharing that story that you had listened to the podcast. The connection with the college roommate was coo. It’s amazing that it didn’t start then when your friend reached out to the show. I almost feel like it’s hard to have that 20/20, but you had started that process back in April of the pandemic where you sat down at the computer and wrote out those thoughts and recognized the gap. Somehow, when you do an exercise like that or you put some thoughts and some beliefs on paper, the universe starts tilting towards that. I’ve seen that far too often.
I believe that 100%. I was open to it by then because I had been thinking about it, and things started falling in line. I remember going to my wife at that time. I was like, “I’m going to reach out to this guy and do some coaching.” She was 100% on board. She wanted me to have some help. She had seen it and she was fine with it too. She was like, “I want you to work with him. Whatever decision we decide to make that this helps or this isn’t working anymore and we need to move on from it, I don’t want you to approach it from that scarcity where I have no options. Let’s figure out where you’re at, then we’ll make some decisions.”
I don’t want to dwell too much on what we did over our coaching history, but what were some of the things that you noticed right off the bat that was difficult for you to address with the coaching? Maybe I had brought them up a number of times and you resisted that maybe you have worked past at this point.
Number one was setting time aside to just even coach. That was my very first hurdle. I reached out. It was an hour and a half that we were going to have to meet.
Twice a month.
I take lunch but realistically, I’m about ten minutes late for lunch. It’s an hour, so 50 minutes. I was thinking, “How can I get an extra half an hour?” How pathetic is that? It’s that mindset of how can I get away for even half an hour.
If you were like me, you’re also thinking, “I could probably see that many patients in the hour. Not only am I paying this guy but I’m losing the revenue that I could have generated through seeing those patients.” I would’ve gone that far and been that petty not recognizing it.
You’re thinking you are the one bringing in the money here. You’re losing money. That was a big step for me to be able to go, “Let’s set time aside.” That led to, “We’re going to set some time aside to run the business.”Set some time aside to run the business. Click To Tweet
Schedule admin time outside that is not weekends or not nights. It’s during business hours.
That was probably my biggest hurdle. It was being able to say no and to address that, and to tell my front office, “I’m not available during this.” That’s foreign to them because they’re always, “Steve, we’re putting this patient here. We’re doing this.”
I remember when you started, they were supportive. When you told them you were going to do that, they were supportive. If I’m not mistaken, you tried to open up your treatment hours again and they resisted you to get back into it.
They were excited about me coaching because I think they wanted some direction. There was no direction. They were just in jobs. I look back on that now and I see the therapist. I had great therapists that worked for me but they would leave. They would just burn out. I’m asking so much without any direction. That led to crucial conversations as well.
I’m a classic avoider. Even though I know it’s there, I pretend like it’s not, and then I seem to think that the world will be okay. That’s not obviously a way to run a business or your life. That helped me get into dealing with conversations. I had time. We did our leadership meeting. We could address issues. It opened the door for so many other portions of the business to be successful or to be addressed.
There were opportunities to start. I remember you saying, “I’m dealing with issues now that I know I’ve had to deal with for the past decade that I’ve never dealt with and finally am resolving them. We’re establishing standard operating procedures, policy and procedure manuals, and these kinds of things. I’m having intentional meetings and giving direction to my front office team, my biller, my marketer and front desk, and how I want things to be run.” You and I know you’re treating patients but you’re hearing the conversations that are going on at the front desk. You’re like, “That’s not how I want that to be done but then you forget about it. You’re finally addressing those things to lead and own the business.
The great thing about that was my administrator who’s been with me since 2007. We worked together at another clinic. I hired her when she was eighteen as a technician. I started a clinic then eventually, she caught up with us several years later. She was excited about it. She was excited about all of these procedures and policies, writing that up and being a part of that. The more I give her, the more she seems to blossom and enjoys that. Those are things that I would’ve never done because I was ignoring everything. If you’re hitting the sand, you’ll go away. There are people on the team that wanted more, wanted to be involved, and flourish as a result.
You had some big goals, I remember from our initial meeting. One of the hurdles that we want to talk about is your average reimbursement per visit when you did that exercise in April was horrific. What was the number?
$67 a visit.
I don’t know the answer. When you wrote it down, what did you want it to be?
It was a pipe dream to think that I could get $100 a visit. Isn’t that crazy? That’s as far as my brain could go. I couldn’t think beyond $100 a visit. Now I look back at those years later and I’m thinking, “I wasn’t even beginning to scratch the surface.” When I type that, I was thinking, “This is impossible but I’m going to write down $100 a visit. I don’t know how I’m going to get there.” It’s pretty incredible.
That’s so exciting. It’s very cool to hear because from the very beginning, I’m not good at holding back in some of those situations when things are that severe, but you had a contract. What were they paying you, $42 or $45 a visit?
I was being generous. They’re paying you $36 a visit and this was a large chunk of your patient population?
It was between 28% and 30% of my total.
They were paying you $36 a visit. I’m sure on that first visit, it was like you got to drop them. I know you were resistant to that for sure.
Other times, my staff will always hear me punching numbers on the calculator. They’d be like, “What’s he doing?” Many times, I would try to come up with a way to be able to drop this insurance but it was basically what I’m taking home. It was my salary. I didn’t see a way around dropping this insurance.
Also, make it a salary.
I was going to work for free. I didn’t know how to get past that. If I dropped this insurance, now I’m working for free.
That wasn’t your only bad payer. You had some other payers that were below $60 a visit.
We had quite a few others that were below that $60 a visit aside from the Sierra.
Sierra was 20% to 30% of your patient volume but then you had these others too. Is this 30%, 40% or even 50% of your patient volume?
Blue Cross Blue Shield was another 18%. We got another pair that is right around the $60 mark. It’s probably 27% or 28%. Cigna was a low payer but it was maybe 1% of our business. That was easy to get rid of.
What were some of the reasons for keeping these low-payers? I know you might not be through it all just yet. I know you’re one by one knocking these out. It started with the Sierra low payer, including these others as you go down the line. I’m sure people will notice that you’re going through this in stages, but what was your mindset before starting this? What held you back? What were you thinking? What were you saying to yourself to keep these payers on board besides, “I had to justify a salary.”
How am I going to supplement my income, but then I was worried about what was I going to tell the doctors. I don’t know if this was true or not but it’s what I believed. I’ve always felt like the doctors were going to send it to me out of convenience. They’re going to say, “You did a good job. You do great therapy,” but if I can’t send you 50% of my business that I’m already seeing and I have to put certain ones aside to send to you, that creates way more work for them. I could see them deciding, “Let’s go with somebody that takes all the insurance. We’re busy. That’s way too much for us to try to give him the ones that he specifically wants.” I was worried about the docs.
That’s the common refrain. You want the referral process to be as easy as possible because from my experience at least, nowadays, doctors almost don’t care too much where you go for therapy. They’ll just give a prescription to a patient and say, “Here’s a list of providers or physical therapy providers that we like and see who’s in your network and go.” It leads you to their own device. You want to grease those wheels as easily as possible, but what has been your experience since then?
There were maybe 13, 14 or 15 docs that consistently we regularly see. Of those physicians, only one has backed away. All the others are still sending and they’re sending consistently. The other thing too is they’re sending us their patients that are now out of network. It’s not just as if they’re saying, “We’ll set aside these ones that we know they’re in network with.” They’re sending us their out-of-network and we’re disclosing that information to the patients even before they’re coming in. I thought that was interesting. I was a little surprised about that.
Even though I used that and I understand that thought process, I’ve seen physicians do the same thing. They’ve tapped out of networks here and there. When you can share that information like, “I’m going out of network because we’re getting cut and I can’t afford to keep taking this insurance,” they understand the game and they can say, “I’ve had to do the same,” or at least they understand.
I feel like especially those doctors that are in a solo practice understand that so much more than these large groups. It’s difficult to even get into those guys anyway.
When you went through that experience, did it give you a little bit more confidence in saying, “Maybe this wasn’t such a big deal?”
Yeah. It’s all of the little worries that I had, whether that be the doctor. Are the patients going to be a little fed up with me as well? Especially those out-of-network. They’re all going to run. What are their comments going to be? All of those things that kept me up at night did not come to fruition at all. We lost patients. We’re going to lose patients naturally because of going out of network, but those other worries about physicians not sending to me anymore and patients being upset, none of that happened.
What was the ultimate mindset shift? You had this mindset from you need to keep taking this insurance because it covers your salary at least to “No, I’m not going to do this anymore to myself. I’m not going to do this for my business. I deserve better.” Was there a tipping point? Was there something that happened that made you think, “I need to take this step?”
We’d been talking about it for a while. Another thing too that I think was from the coaching is I started to notice that I resented the patients. I wanted them to be there and I wanted to give them good care. I found myself resenting them because I knew I wasn’t making any money. Here I am trying to give them good care and I’m losing money by them coming in. I think you had said, “The best thing to do with these patients is to give them $20 when they show up.”
Turn them away and save your time.
You’re not losing time on top of it. That came into my mind a bit too. I went through a positive intelligence course. The book was Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine. I went through that. It’s a six-week course. It helped me focus a little bit more on the abundance and be able to retrain my brain so that I’m not constantly focused on those negative feelings or those emotions or everything that can come as a result of dropping this.
It helped me. It opened up my view to all of the possibilities that come once I drop that. There’s so much out there. I almost felt like I was enclosed in that mindset where this is the only way to operate. This is the only way you can do this. Once I dropped that, then it opened up tons of possibilities. That positive intelligence course taught me the mindfulness exercises to be able to get to that point or get in that position to make that decision.
Did you find yourself asking different questions? I’m not trying to be leading but I find with my own experience where I started saying “I can’t do that” or “I’m not going to do that,” instead of saying, “What would I need to do in order to accomplish blank?” I’m focused on the negative things. Did you find yourself asking different questions or did you have a different perspective?
I think it was a different perspective that led to different questions. Now the questions weren’t, “What am I going to do? How am I going to supplement this? The numbers don’t work.” It was, “Look at this. Look what happened here. Now, what can we do? Should we turn off this other insurance? Is there another service we can do? How do we supplement this? What else is out there?” There were so many things. I felt like so many opportunities opened up because I wasn’t constantly spending all of my energy on that scarcity, in a sense, and losing something. It’s more so on, “What else can we gain?” I feel like it almost goes back to those same numbers in terms of how many people utilize physical therapy. What do we say, 10% or 11% of the population?
The population that needs physical therapy that would qualify for musculoskeletal injuries get the therapy they needed.
How many are accessing physical therapy? It’s just a fraction of that. When you look at those total numbers, you think, “There are so many other people out there that we can market to or different systems that we can set up to allow other types of business to come in here.” It opened up my mindset and my views to not so much the negativity but the positivity and see what else is available.Open up your mindset and views, not with so much negativity, but with positivity and see what else is available. Click To Tweet
I remember talking to you and this was about a year ago. We’re in December of 2022. It was December 2021. You had turned in your 90-day termination letter with the contract with the payer. I was impressed that you had some reservations but you were committed. You said, “This is what I know I need to do. This is what I’m going to do.” How did you maintain that positivity through that 90-day period? I’m sure there were times when you were thinking, “What did I just do?” There was also the roller coaster other end where you’re excited about the future and punching out the numbers and seeing, “I’m going to go from $67 a visit to $85 a visit. My profit margin is going to be blank now.” Finally, how did you maintain that positive attitude through the valleys of self-doubt?
I may have mentioned this before but when my wife and I were talking, we went all the way with it in terms of everything that could happen. Let’s say the doctors don’t send it to me anymore, 100%. They stopped sending them to me and patients stop coming. We can’t make payroll and we lose the business. We lose our house. We lose everything.
We went to a point to see what that would look like. We realized, “That’s realistically whatever. I’m a physical therapist. I can get a job anywhere. I can start over. We can make this happen.” I took it to the very end, to the point where you have nothing and you lose everything. I think throughout the process, even though there were dips, it was never ever going to get to that point. Everything was positive from there on out.
I think you’ve dropped two insurances at this point.
You’re looking at it from the perspective of, “We’re getting lean, mean, profitable.” You have a significant amount of confidence. At this point, is there anything you would’ve done differently if you simply talked to yourself a year ago? Did you feel like you followed the right steps? For people who are looking forward, would you have done anything differently?
There are a couple of things I did learn along the way that I would go back and tell myself. One of those is that I was very concerned about charging the patient upfront before we knew how much the insurance was going to reimburse for out-of-network. I was nervous about saying, “You’ve got to pay this,” and then we’ll see what the insurance does.
What I’ve noticed is that the more confident we are in our service and the value we offer, the more patients are willing to pay for that because it is a service that they need. Upfront is what it is. We’re very matter-of-fact about it. I would like to tell myself, “People are going to be willing to pay for that because they’re getting a good service here.” Don’t approach it again with this mindset of, “What are they going to do? Are we going to lose them? They’re going to hear that number.” No, this is what it is. This is what we offer. Go into it with a little more confidence.
I can totally see that because the patient is going to feel that. If you are saying, “We’re going to charge you $135 a visit,” with some trepidation, then they’re going to say, “Are you sure you want to charge $135?” Versus someone who comes in confidently and says, “We charge $135 per visit. This is what plan of care we’re going to use to get you better blank, blank, blank. You come in this many times and you’re going to see value from the therapy.” It sounds like as you’ve gained that confidence or at least spoken confidently, the patients have responded appropriately.
That’s how it was too. My front office was great in terms of saying, “This is what it is. Here’s what this entails. This is what you’re going to be getting from it. These are some of the services that would necessarily be covered by an insurance company anyway.” They were very confident in how they presented it as well. That made a big difference.
Is that some training that you had to do with the entire team when you’re saying, “We’re going to charge some out-of-network rates. We need to be speaking the same language, have the same story, and talk confidently from a place of we provide value.” Is that something you had to train?
We sat down as a staff and talked about the changes we were going to be making. We went over that but I wanted to also address, “This clinic isn’t going to be near as chaotic. We’re not going to have near the number of people coming in and out of here so I want to focus a lot on the experience as well.” Part of that experience is how we present this to the patient when they come in. Their copay isn’t going to be $10 or $15 but it’s going to be this. How do we present this in a way that we may think maybe $135 is a lot, but they’re not going to think that? Who knows what their co-payment is or what they’re paying deductible or what they had to pay for lab work or whatever that may be? In a sense, this is the value, this is the service we’re offering, and here’s the price.
Were you surprised? You dropped the contract? I remember the day you were going to let your therapist go. I think I talked to you that day and talked to you out of it because here was the therapist who’s aligned with you and all that stuff. You were going to let her go and I asked you to keep her for a little bit and see what happens. Were you surprised that you took that six-week and came back almost to where you were before total visits wise?
We talk about how it had positive emotions throughout. It’s obviously not. There were days when I was very concerned. Right when we did start, I was thinking, “The quick way for me to supplement my income is to let a therapist go and I’ll pick up.” We had that conversation. We did the math. You’re like, “This is how many more patients you need to see to be able to meet her salary.” I was blown away that within maybe 5 or 6 weeks, our numbers were back to maybe within 10% or 15% of what they initially were.
What was that? That was a 33% increase in your average reimbursement per visit.
I was shocked because you have a dip but some of those patients stayed on. I think it also created space for some of the insurances that were higher paying to fill some of those slots. One thing I did not anticipate is that some of these other patients that had other insurances would fill those slots as well.
What would you tell other people who have accepted low-paying contracts and they’re considering getting out of them, especially as they’re tuning in to this episode?
There are a couple of things. One of the first things I think I’d tell people is that there are going to be lean months. It will be difficult. I don’t want to get on here and say, “We dropped this insurance and what do you know? We were now making this much more and our visits didn’t go down dramatically and everything was great,” because they do.
There are months when I wasn’t making anything. We had to find ways to supplement that through attorney gains, higher payer workers’ comp, whatever it was. Those take time as relationships have to grow. It was a matter of supplementing that. That’s one of the first things I’d probably tell people and change that mindset.
Getting your mind in such a place that you feel like you’re not constantly worried about what’s going to happen. This is one of the things my wife said to me too when we were talking in the kitchen one night. I’m like, “We dropped these insurances. Now, these doctors aren’t going to send them to me. I’m not going to be able to make payroll.”
All of those things and she said, “Let’s go all the way with it.” She’s like, “What if you can’t make payroll? It happens.” We went all the way down and I’m like, “We’re going to lose our house.” She’s like, “We lose our house, then what? Where do we go?” We laid it all the way out there and I got to the point where I was like, “Let’s do this then.”
I’m okay with the worst-case scenario because it isn’t as bad as you imagined it to be, and it never gets that bad. That’s the thing.
It doesn’t. You’ll figure a way around it. You will. That way is going to be different for everybody.
My friend in San Francisco dropped UnitedHealthcare a few months ago. He says it’s improved his cashflow because now he charges patients out of pocket. I don’t know how much and I don’t want to speak for him. They will bill their patients’ out-of-network benefits. If they pay the clinic anything, they’ll give that money back to the patient up to the amount that they owed per visit. Now he’s getting a greater amount on the date of service than he was before. It’s been better cashflow instead of waiting for 30 days for insurance to pay. It’s different for everybody, but what I was impressed with and the way you went through this the entire time was that you followed a plan.
I said, “When are you going to drop them?” “I’m going to drop them here because at that point, I know that my attorney leans are going to be a little bit higher and that would supplement the reimbursement rates and increase them significantly if I get a higher number of those patients.” You had a step-by-step plan. “At so-and-so time, I’m going to drop Blue Cross Blue Shield once we’ve stabilized, then I can see my reimbursement rate getting even higher to this number.” You had a plan about it then you weren’t just hoping for the best and crossing your fingers and doing this little exercise that your coach told you to do.
I have to attribute that plan to your coaching and what we talked about. Eventually, this is where I want to get to, but these are the steps I need to take. Going through that together with you helps almost solidify that plan in a sense.
I’m assuming that this feeling that you have about your capabilities as an owner has now somewhat improved.
Thinking about the previous several years, I was ignoring the business as I treated patients. Now that I’m working on the business, acting as an owner and doing duties as an owner would, I gain more confidence in my ability to lead, to be an owner, and to address issues. The list goes on and on. The whole exercise of being able to step away and see the bigger picture is empowering in and of itself.Gain more confidence in your ability to lead and be an owner. Step away and look at the bigger picture. That's empowering in and of itself. Click To Tweet
That’s amazing. If people wanted to ask you questions about your experience or get some advice, are you willing to share how they can contact you?
Contact me through my email, which is [email protected]. You’re welcome to text me too. My cell number is 702-354-6393. Reach out to me if you have any questions.
Thanks for being open to those who might have questions but also for sharing your experience. It was awesome.
It’s my pleasure. I enjoyed it.
- Achieve Physical Therapy
- Blue Cross Blue Shield
- Positive Intelligence
- [email protected]
About Steve Edwards
Steve was born and raised in Rexburg, Idaho but has lived in Las Vegas since 1998. He received his undergraduate degree at BYU and his Master’s of Physical Therapy degree from Idaho State University. Immediately following graduate school, he and his wife moved to Las Vegas for his first physical therapy job.
He started Achieve Physical Therapy in 2004 and is passionate about helping others achieve their goals. When he’s not working, he loves spending time with his wife and four children attempting to play the guitar, traveling and eating street tacos.
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